---
title: John 17:5
url: https://jw-apologetics.app/verses/john-17-5/
markdown: https://jw-apologetics.app/verses/john-17-5.md
type: verse
perspective: Protestant (historic Nicene) response to Jehovah's Witness teaching
reference: John 17:5
testament: NT
section: Gospels
index: https://jw-apologetics.app/llms.txt
---

# John 17:5

## Text (Berean Standard Bible)

> And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

## JW Usage

JWs read the verse as Jehovah granting reflected glory to a glorious angelic being (Michael in his pre-incarnate state). The "glory I had with you" is treated as derivative — given by the Father, not intrinsically shared — and Jesus' request to be re-glorified is framed as the Father restoring an honoured creature to his prior exalted status.

## Protestant Usage

This verse forms one half of a clean two-text logical fork. Isaiah 42:8 has Jehovah declaring "I am Jehovah. That is my name; I give my glory to no one else, nor my praise to graven images" (echoed at Isaiah 48:11). In John 17:5 Jesus prays: "glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." Jesus does not say "the glory you gave me" — he says "the glory I had" (eichon, imperfect: ongoing possession) "alongside you" (para soi) "before the world existed." This is shared, pre-cosmic, ongoing glory. If Jehovah will not give his glory to another, and Jesus possessed Jehovah's glory before creation, then Jesus is not another. The argument is built entirely on JW-accepted texts in their own translation.

## Arguments Using This Verse

- [Jesus' Eternality](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/psalm102-hebrews1.md) — Psalm 102 → Hebrews 1 [Deity of Christ]
- [Jesus Shared Jehovah's Glory](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/john17-glory.md) — John 17:5 [Deity of Christ]
- [The Incarnation Framework](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/philippians2.md) — Philippians 2:5–8 [Deity of Christ]
- [Spirit of Christ — Restructured Away](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/spirit-of-christ.md) — 1 Peter 1:11 — The NWT Breaks the Genitive to Hide Pre-Existence [NWT Translation]
- [The Jehovah/Adam Name Analogy](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/jehovah-adam-analogy.md) — Genesis 5:2 — One Name, Two Persons [Deity of Christ]
- [The Son Hands Over the Kingdom — 1 Corinthians 15:24-28](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/1corinthians15-subjection.md) — 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 / John 17:5 / Philippians 2:9-11 [Deity of Christ]
- [Three "I"s in One Divine Mind — Why the Trinity Isn't a Body-Count Problem](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/trinity-three-centres-of-consciousness.md) — Person and being are different categories — and God is spirit [Deity of Christ]
- [We Didn't Invent the Trinity — We Summarised What God Revealed](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/trinity-from-revelation-not-deduction.md) — A summary of three biblical revelations, not a philosophical speculation [Deity of Christ]
- [An Attribute Can't Become Flesh](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/logos-attribute-vs-person.md) — John 1:14 — the Word who became flesh has a son's glory, a past and a place at the Father's side [Deity of Christ]
- [Always the Father, Always a Son](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/eternal-father-eternal-son.md) — Malachi 3:6 / John 17:24 — if Jehovah never changes and has always been Father, he has always had a Son [Deity of Christ]
- [David's Son, David's Lord](https://jw-apologetics.app/arguments/psalm-110-my-lord.md) — Psalm 110:1 / Matthew 22:41-46 — the question Jesus asked that nobody could answer [Deity of Christ]